Chapter 13

Science of the Esoteric

4 August 1970 pm in Bomnay, India

Question 1

IN ONE OF YOUR DISCOURSES YOU HAVE SAID: IN DEEP MEDITATION, IF THE LUMINOUS BODY, THE SUBTLE BODY OF A MAN OR A WOMAN GOES OUT OF THE PHYSICAL BODY, IT CANNOT BE BROUGHT BACK WITHOUT THE HELP OF THE OPPOSITE SEX, BECAUSE BY THEIR TOUCH AN ELECTRIC CIRCUIT IS COMPLETED AND THE CONSCIOUSNESS THAT HAS GONE OUT OF THE BODY RETURNS IMMEDIATELY.

YOU HAVE EVEN NARRATED YOUR OWN EXPERIENCE WHEN YOU WERE MEDITATING SITTING ON A TREE.

IN THAT STATE, YOUR PHYSICAL BODY FELL DOWN AND YOUR SUBTLE BODY KEPT WATCHING IT FROM THE TREE.

THEN, BY THE TOUCH OF A WOMAN, YOUR SUBTLE BODY REENTERED THE PHYSICAL BODY.

SO THE QUESTION IS: IN THIS TECHNIQUE WHY IS THE OPPOSITE SEX NEEDED? AND FOR HOW LONG? IS IT NOT POSSIBLE TO RETURN TO THE PHYSICAL BODY WITHOUT THE OTHERS HELP? WHAT IS THE DIFFICULTY?

A few things need to be understood.

First, the entire system in this universe is based on the polarity of the positive and the negative.

Wherever there is attraction, wherever you see the pull you will find the two parts, negative and positive, working there.

The male-female division, or the division of sex, is part of that larger polarity.

In the language of electricity, the negative and positive poles attract each other with great force.

The same principle is behind the attraction between man and woman.

There is no fundamental difference between the nature of this attraction and a piece of iron being pulled by a magnet.

If the piece of iron could speak, it would also say, "I have fallen in love with this magnet, now I cant live without it.

Either Ill live with it, or die with it.

" If the piece of iron were able to speak, it would have written as many poems on love as have been written by human beings.

Its inability to speak is the only difference, otherwise the attraction is the same.

If you can understand the nature of this attraction, it will be easy for you to follow a few other things.

This attraction is generally experienced by all, but it can be of value in the spiritual sense too.

And in certain conditions it even becomes inevitable.

For example, if a mans subtle body should ever accidentally come out of his physical body -- accidentally, without any previous arrangement or a spiritual practice to bring it out -- it becomes difficult for the subtle body to return.

Similarly, if a womans subtle body happens to leave her physical body by accident -- in some illness, in a mishap, because of an injury, or while pursuing some spiritual practice -- without her planning for it, it becomes very difficult for the subtle body to come back, because in such a case the person neither knows the way to go out of the body, nor does he know the way to return to the body.

The presence of the opposite point of attraction in such situations can be helpful.

The touch of a woman makes it convenient for the subtle body of man to return to the physical body.

This is similar to placing a sheet of glass between the magnet and a piece of iron.

The iron will still be attracted to the magnet regardless of the sheet of glass in between.

So in spite of the mans physical body lying in between, the touch of a woman will help bring back the subtle body.

The magnetic force will cause it to happen.

A womans subtle body can be similarly helped to come back if it has gone out accidentally.

But it has to be an accidental happening; such assistance is not necessary if the experiment is planned beforehand.

Why is it so?

If you have heard my previous talks, you may recall I had said that each mans first body is male and his second body is female.

A womans first body is female and her second body male.

If one has made arrangements to let his subtle body go out, then he doesnt need a womans body.

He can use his own second body -- which is female -- for the return of the subtle body.

Then the other woman is not needed.

This is possible however, only if the experiment is well-planned -- the leaving of the body should not be accidental.

When such an event happens by accident, you remain unaware of the other bodies present inside you.

Neither do you have any idea of how these bodies function, nor do you know how to make use of them.

So it is possible that the subtle body of a man may return without any help from a woman, but this too will be as much accidental as the leaving of the subtle body.

Therefore, one cannot be very sure about it.

No one else has done as many experiments on the inner life of man as the tantrikas.

Hence, in every tantric workshop -- where the greatest amount of work was done on the inner bodies of man -- the presence of a woman had become inevitable.

Not the presence of an ordinary woman, but of a special woman.

Virgin girls were highly valued in Tantra, because if a woman has had sexual intercourse with many men, her magnetic force dissipates.

This was the only reason why virgin girls were required.

If a woman has been in a sexual relationship with more than one man, or many times with one man, her magnetic force wears down.

Old age is not the only reason why an old woman looks less attractive.

The same goes for man.

The most fundamental reason is that their polarity weakens -- the man appears less a man, and the woman less a woman.

If one could stay a man or a woman until one grows old, he or she would never cease to be attractive.

The dynamics of staying a man or a woman until the end is what brahmacharya, celibacy, is all about.

There is a lady in America who is over seventy -- and there is no other woman in that country who can surpass her in attractiveness.

Even at this age she needs special police protection.

This woman has obviously succeeded in preserving her magnetic elements even until the age of seventy, A man can do the same as well.

Prithvisinghji is sitting here.

Even though he is quite old, the element of youth is very much present in him.

He has saved his magnetic force for a much longer period.

Somehow he has still remained attractive even to this date, even at this old age.

So in Tantra, virgin girls became very valuable in pulling the consciousness of the seeker back in the body.

These virgins had to maintain their sanctity very meticulously so that their magnetic power would not leak out.

There are ways to increase this power as there are ways to weaken it.

Various asanas, body postures, such as siddhasana, padmasana, were devised specifically with the idea of preventing this power from escaping outside the body.

There are certain points in our body through which our magnetic power moves outwards.

For example, it flows through our fingers.

Actually, in order for this energy to flow outward it needs a pointed thing to pass through.

It cant flow out of anything circular -- there it keeps turning around.

It flows out of the toes as well.

So hands and feet are the two main outlets from where this power flows out.

Thats why in siddhasana, or in padmasana, the hands and feet are meant to be joined together so that the energy flows from one hand to the other and does not move out.

Eyes are another big opening from where the magnetic power flows out.

However, this power stops flowing if one can manage to keep them half-closed.

You will be amazed to know that the energy flows not only when eyes are wide open but also when they are fully closed.

It doesnt flow when the eyes are half-open.

When the eyes are half-open and half-closed, a situation occurs in which the circuit created inside the eyes is broken.

The energy wants both to move out and stay in.

The energy is divided within -- half wants to flow out, while the other half wants to move in.

Both oppose and negate each other.

Hence, the half-open eyes became very significant -- in Tantra, in Yoga, and so on.

If the energy is conserved from all sides and the individual is aware of his opposite body within, the other is not needed.

However, once in a while things happen accidentally.

In the state of meditation, for example, a moment comes when without the persons knowledge this phenomenon occurs.

In such a case help from outside may be taken.

But it is not required except under unexpected situations.

As I see it, if husband and wife cooperate with each other, they can become partners in the spiritual sense too.

If both understand completely each others spiritual states, the magnetic and electric forces of each other, and cooperate, they can have the inner experience much more easily than a male or a female sannyasin can have it alone.

Besides the fact that both come to know each other closely, their magnetic power finds a deep adjustment as well.

Hence one experiences a very strange thing.

If a man and a woman are deeply in love, feel very close to each other, are very intimate, have no conflict, they begin to reflect each others vices and virtues.

So much so that if the couple is very much in love, their voices begin to resemble, their facial expressions look similar.

A harmony between their personalities begins to show up.

In fact, the electricity they contain within enters into each other.

By and by both become homogeneous.

But this is not possible if a discord exists between them.

So it is useful to keep in mind that man and woman can be helpful to each other.

The conjugal relationship between husband and wife is not limited merely to sex -- it can become a relationship to experience samadhi as well.

Its also worth noting in this regard that generally, a sannyasin looks very attractive.

No ordinary person attracts women as much as he does.

There is no other reason for this except that a male sannyasin contains a great reservoir of magnetic forces.

Similarly, compared to an ordinary woman a female sannyasin looks far more attractive to men -- for the simple reason that the magnetic power is stored up in her.

Should husband and wife also conserve this power and understand well how not to lose it, they can prove much more helpful in saving each others magnetic power rather than causing it to dissipate.

You may recall my previous talks in which I have said that even sex can prove to be the conserver of energy if practiced with the knowledge of various yoga techniques and the discipline of Tantra.

So remember, the role of the opposite sex is essential only in accidental situations.

However, the physical assistance from the opposite sex is not required in every case.

Many times, even when the phenomenon occurs unexpectedly, the subtle body returns.

But in that case it is the inner woman that makes it possible.

So one way or another, the woman is inevitably instrumental, the man is inevitably instrumental.

Question 2

WHAT ARE THE PRECISE METHODS FOR COMING BACK IN THE BODY? PLEASE EXPLAIN.

Something needs to be understood in this regard too.

Ordinarily, we dont realize that every touch of ours contains magnetism.

When we are filled with love and touch a person, the person can feel the different quality of touch.

When we are filled with hatred and touch someone, the difference is noticed too.

When we touch somebody with indifference, the person knows as well.

In all three cases the magnetic element in us flows in different channels.

Furthermore, if one concentrates his mind just on ones hands with a total will, the magnetic forces become very strong.

Mesmer calls them "magnetic passes.

"

Make a person lie naked.

Spread both your palms four inches above his head -- dont touch his body.

Now vibrate your hands vigorously and move them from head to toe -- keep your hands four inches away from the body.

If you do this for fifteen minutes, the person will attain such enormous peace, such profound sleep -- the kind of sleep he may have never had before.

Dont touch him -- simply create electric currents with your hands from a distance of four inches.

Just feel the electric currents are flowing and, shaking both hands, move them from head to feet.

Aldous Huxleys wife has narrated a strange incident in her memoirs.

She had met Huxley while his first wife was still alive.

She was a psychiatrist and Huxley had approached her for treatment.

She went to his house for his psychoanalysis.

She made him lie on a couch and talked to him for almost two hours.

She realized, however, that Huxley was such an intelligent man that it was very difficult to get anything out of him -- obviously, intelligent people are difficult to deal with!

Whatsoever she said, Huxley knew more than that.

The books she referred to, Huxley had read those and many more.

Huxley even explained to her the meanings of the words and terminology she used in talking to him.

It became a difficult situation.

The patient was wiser, more learned, more intelligent than the therapist.

Huxley was one of the wisest people of this age.

The lady was just an ordinary doctor, a psychiatrist, while Huxley was a remarkable man.

She became nervous in about a couple of hours.

She realized that the use of scientific terminology was leading her nowhere.

Naturally, those who are aware of the exact meanings of words often fail to reach the real meanings -- they remain stuck with the literal meaning.

She became very confused.

It became apparent to her that what she was doing would not work.

But she remembered suddenly that Huxley knew something about the magnetic passes.

So she said, "I have heard you know something about magnetic passes.

Is it true?" Hearing this, Huxley got up at once.

Up to now he was answering her rather reluctantly; now he became very interested.

He asked her to lie on the couch.

Just so that Huxley may have a chance to do something and take some interest, she lay down on the couch.

Huxley had indeed become uncomfortable lying there for about two hours.

So while the lady lay on the couch, Huxley gave her passes from a distance of four inches from her body.

Its a very simple technique.

Keep your fingers four inches away from the face and shake them vigorously.

Feel electricity flowing through the fingers and move them from head to toe.

Huxley followed this technique and within ten minutes the lady went into a deep peaceful state.

She had created the whole thing just as a means to bring some excitement in Huxley.

Then she got up and asked him to lie down.

The lady went home after a while, but she couldnt get out of her drowsiness.

She remained all the while as if in a state of sleepiness, she couldnt figure out what was happening.

She called Huxleys wife on the phone and told her how she was in that funny space.

Huxleys wife asked, "Did Huxley wake you up?"

The woman replied, "No, he didnt wake me, I got up by myself.

"

Hearing this, the wife called out to Huxley, "You forgot to wake up Laura -- she is still in the sleepy state.

"

Huxley said, "Before I could wake her, she got up on her own.

Then we began talking and I forgot the whole thing.

"

Huxley had not withdrawn the energy he gave her through the magnetic passes; it followed her for about two days.

So when the energy is transmitted, hands move from head to feet; when it is taken back, hands move from the feet to the head.

There are certain points in the body which are very sensitive; the energy passes through them very quickly.

The most sensitive of all points is between our two eyes.

It is called the agya chakra, or the third eye.

It is the most sensitive spot in our body.

If you sit with your eyes closed and someone points his finger in between your eyes four inches away from you, you will soon begin to see the finger inside -- although you wont see outside because of closed eyes.

The finger will not touch you from outside, but you will begin to feel its touch from within and the chakra will be activated inside.

If the same experiment were carried out even on a sleeping person, his chakra would become active in sleep.

The second most active point is at the back of your neck.

It would be fun some time to experiment on this center.

For example, a stranger is walking ahead of you.

If you focus your eyes on the back of his neck from a distance of four feet and give him suggestions to look back, in a few minutes you will find the man looking behind him nervously.

You can even make him look behind from his left or right -- whichever way you suggest, he will look back.

You can even suggest to him to turn on the next street instead of going straight ahead.

After a few experiments, when you become confident, you can make a person go astray.

You can make him go where he never wanted to go.

When children are kidnapped, their hands and feet are not tied; rather, the center at the back of their necks is worked on.

If one attempts to tie their limbs openly on the street, children can yell and scream and draw peoples attention.

The kidnapper can be easily caught.

But if one knows how to act on the center at the back of the neck, one can take anybody with him wherever he wants.

And the interesting thing is, this man X, for instance, will be walking behind Y, the person he is working on.

So no one can accuse X of leading anybody away.

Although Y will be walking ahead of X, he will be only following Xs suggestions.

X can make Y walk, turn, move whichever way he wants.

He can take Y wherever he wants.

So these two points are very significant.

There are many other points in the body, but it is better not to discuss them.

These two centers are simple and straightforward.

As I pointed out in my previous talk, any woman who went to see Gurdjieff immediately felt some work happening on her sex center.

Many intelligent women went to see him and their experience was the same.

As soon as they would go to Gurdjieff, immediately their sex center would become active -- some strange intense sensation would begin making a circular movement at that point.

Its a tremendously sensitive point.

The navel is also one such center.

There are many other centers as well.

So the question is, if a mans consciousness has gone out, where should the body be touched so that it can be brought back? Generally we need to know the mans personality; we must know which point in his body was most alive.

If he is sexual, then touching his sex center would enable his subtle body to return at once.

If he is an intellectual, lives through intellect, then the body would return by touching the agya chakra.

If the person is sentimental, emotional, then the subtle body can be brought back by touching his heart.

So it will all depend on the center through which the person lives the most.

Remember, when a person dies his life force leaves from the very center he has lived through most.

And the same is the point for his subtle body to enter his physical body as well.

For example, when a sexual man dies his life force departs through his genitals.

There is a complete science which describes how by observing a dying man, you can tell which center in his body was most active, because that is the center which breaks down at the moment of death.

We still observe an age-old practice at the time of cremation; its a practice which although now totally meaningless, was conceived once upon a time at a great moment of realization.

At the end of cremation we break the skull of the burning body with a staff.

The blow is made at the point of the sahasrar, the seventh chakra.

The fact is that the skull of a person who attains to sahasrar breaks open at the moment of death.

His vital energy escapes from that point.

Now in the foolishness of hoping that the life breath of our beloved one will pass through the sahasrar, we have been following the tradition of breaking the skull at cremation.

This is quite meaningless because the mans life breath has already escaped through another center.

However, one who at the moment of his death has attained the highest state of consciousness, a hole appears on his forehead because the life breath escapes from that point.

Ever since people came to notice this fact, they have been breaking skulls at the cremation ground -- affectionately, in the hope that this way the vital breath of their dead beloveds may leave through that center, although actually the person is dead, the vital breath is already out.

The center of our life is the same from where our vital breath departs.

Thats why on touching this center the subtle body returns immediately.

Although this center is different in each individual, ninety out of a hundred people will have sex as their center, because the whole world is obsessed with sex.

So if you are unable to figure out, touching the sex center will do.

If that doesnt work, then most probably it is the agya chakra, the third eye, because with people who are very intelligent or who use their intellect a great deal, their sex energy turns into intelligence.

If both centers fail, then one should touch the heart center.

Those who are neither very sexual nor very intelligent are emotional people.

These three are the common centers.

Then there are some uncommon centers too, but there are very few uncommon people with such centers.

By touching these common centers

In exercising this touch, a few things need to be taken into account.

If a particular center is predominantly active in the person who is applying the touch, then it creates an unusual situation.

For example, if a person whose agya chakra is active were to touch somebodys heart center, it will have very little effect.

The whole thing has a science of its own.

Hence, it is always dangerous to practice these experiments on ones own -- experiencing the seven bodies, out of the body experience, and so on.

A school, an ashram where there are people who understand the whole system, who can be of some assistance -- is the place appropriate for conducting such experiments.

Thats why in the tradition of monks who decided to remain parivrajakas, wandering monks, the seven chakras, the seven bodies all disappeared

.

because a wandering monk cannot make use of them.

Monks who are continuously on the move, roaming around, never staying at one place, cant experiment much in these areas.

Therefore, great experiments in these fields were carried out only in the monasteries and the ashrams.

For example, there is a monastery in Europe where no man has ever entered.

The monastery is about fourteen hundred years old.

Only nuns reside in it.

Once a woman is admitted she can never come out of it.

Her name is struck from the citizens list; she becomes as good as dead.

The world becomes meaningless to her, she no longer exists for the world.

A similar kind of monastery exists for men too.

In creating this monastery the esoteric Christianity had done a remarkable job.

No woman has ever entered in that mens monastery.

No man who has entered has ever come out of it.

Both these monasteries are close to each other.

Should a monks subtle body leave his physical body, a womans touch will not be necessary.

It is enough to place him next to the wall of that womens monastery.

The whole monastery is charged.

No man has ever entered it.

There are thousands of women inside.

There are thousands of men inside the mens monastery.

It is not an ordinary resolve, its an extraordinary determination.

Its a resolve to embrace death while being alive.

Now there is no way to turn back.

The secretmost sciences could develop in these monasteries because they were very convenient for carrying on experiments.

The tantrikas had also created such facilities but by and by they were wiped out.

And we are responsible for it, because the foolish puritanical attitudes of people in this country had declared tantrikas immoral.

If a naked woman is worshipped in a monastery, it will obviously upset the man of ethics and morality in the outer world.

It is indeed dangerous if it becomes known that in a monastery a woman sits naked and seekers worship her.

About the naked woman being worshipped by men, a man outside is bound to project his own mind, his own acts.

So we destroyed a great many monasteries, a great many scriptures in this country.

King Bhoja alone slaughtered one hundred thousand tantrikas.

They were murdered en masse throughout the country, wherever they were found.

The reason was they were carrying on certain experiments which would have brought an end to the entire priesthood, to the so-called morality and the puritan mind of this country.

If their experiments were right, then all our morality is wrong.

It was the experience of tantrikas that if a man performs a particular kind of worship before a naked woman with the feeling of reverence, he becomes free from women forever.

Similarly, if a woman performs particular kinds of worship before a naked man, she becomes free from men forever.

The magnetic forces between man and woman are actually designed to unite them.

So it is not a small thing if a man becomes capable of looking at a naked woman before him with a feeling of reverence.

Although nature has equipped man to enjoy woman, should a man become adept at looking at a woman with reverence his magnetic force -- the energy which otherwise moved toward the outer woman -- begins to flow toward the inner woman.

Thats the only way it can be, because his attraction for woman disappears.

Now she becomes a mother to him.

Now he looks upon her as a goddess.

She becomes someone who is venerable.

Once the energy is reversed, where will it go? Obviously the energy is never destroyed; one simply changes its course.

No energy is ever destroyed, only its course is diverted.

If the woman outside becomes an object of worship, the energy begins to flow inward and the meeting with the inner woman occurs.

Once the union with the inner woman has taken place, a meeting with the woman outside has no purpose, it becomes meaningless.

There were specific procedures, particular states of mind, special meditations, certain mantras, definite words, select techniques in order to worship a naked woman.

The union with the inner woman occurred when the experiment included all these ingredients.

The entire system was similar to how it is in a science laboratory.

We all know that the combination of hydrogen and oxygen makes water.

This does not mean however, that if you fill your room with hydrogen and oxygen, water will result.

Just the presence of both hydrogen and oxygen is not enough.

A high voltage of electricity is required to convert the hydrogen and oxygen into water.

The rainwater is caused by the lightning.

Hydrogen and oxygen both are present, but only when the lightning flashes with such a powerful force that the heat generated by that electricity brings about a mixture of both the gases, is water created.

God forbid, but such an unfortunate day may come -- thanks to our scientists -- that we may be left with books which simply mention that water is created by combining hydrogen and oxygen.

But just this much will not help in creating water.

The same is true with the books on Tantra.

The books contain only this much information, that by worshipping naked women with the feeling of devotion, the energy flows inward.

But we have no idea how some charge of electricity, how some special occurrence of this kind is needed for this phenomenon to happen.

Lets look at it this way.

You may have heard the Tibetan mantra: om mani padme hum.

If you repeat this mantra, youll find that several parts of your body are involved in uttering these words.

For example, the word Om reverberates above the throat level, while the word Padme reaches the navel, and Hum to the sex center.

Just uttering this mantra repeatedly will show how it penetrates into the different parts of your body.

Now this mantra, Om Mani Padmi Hum

.

if the word Hum is repeated often, its powerful impact stops the outward flow of the sex center.

With the repeated use of this Hum, the sexuality of man is destroyed, it disappears.

Many techniques were performed before the naked woman.

It is easy to find out whether a technique is working or not if the worshipping man is naked as well and the other seekers are watching him.

But watching a naked woman from outside, one cannot be sure whether or not she is sexually aroused; her sexual mechanism is hidden inside her body.

Watching a naked man however, one can instantly find out whether he is sexually aroused or not.

Mahavira allowed only those monks to stay naked who had practiced deeply the sound of Hum.

They could be permitted to remain naked, their sex organs were not affected even in sleep.

You will be surprised to know, but ordinarily it is difficult to find a man who doesnt have an erection two to four times during sleep at night -- whether he is aware of it or not.

In America, where a great deal of research is being done on sleep, a very amazing thing has been noted: every man invariably has an erection two to four times in sleep at night.

Whenever dreams center around sex, the genitals are affected.

If dreams can affect sex organs, then words can too.

If dreams can affect sex organs, then pictures can as well.

After all, what are dreams?

So there is a whole system for transformation, the energy can be turned inward.

In the context of turning the energy inward, it may be asked: Why wasnt there a tantric system where the man would stand naked and women would worship him? This needs to be understood as well.

There never was any tantric system where a naked man was worshipped by a woman because such practice was found unnecessary.

There are a few reasons behind this.

The first reason is that whenever a man is attracted toward a woman, he wants to see her naked.

The woman has no such desire.

Man is a voyeur.

Man wants to see the woman naked; the woman has no such interest.

This is the reason why during intercourse ninety-nine out of a hundred women close their eyes, while man keeps his eyes open.

Even when you kiss a woman, she keeps her eyes closed.

There is a reason for it: she doesnt want to live that moment outwardly.

To her, this moment has nothing to do with what is outside.

She wants to enjoy this moment inwardly, within.

This is the reason why men have created so many statues, films, paintings of women in the nude, but women have as yet taken no interest in nude men.

Neither do they keep photographs of nude men, nor do they paint nude men or hang calendars of nude men in their homes -- they have absolutely no interest in seeing a nude man.

Women have never shown any interest in nude men, but mans interest in nude women is very deep.

A nude woman may well become instrumental in mans transformation, but a nude man would only cause a woman to close her eyes -- nothing more.

So a similar technique is meaningless for women.

A womans transformation happens differently.

It is important to keep in mind that a woman is the passive sex -- she is not aggressive, she is receptive.

No woman can be aggressive.

She never even goes to anyone on her own to say, "I love you" -- let alone being aggressive about it.

Even expressing this much would be an act of aggressiveness on her part.

Even when a woman falls in love with somebody, she works it out in such a way that the man goes to her and says, "I love you.

" A woman never goes and says such things on her own.

She cant even commit this much of an aggression.

When a man approaches a woman and says, "I love you," even if the woman would like to respond favorably, she says, "No" instead of "Yes.

" She refrains from cooperating in mans aggression by not saying even as little as "Yes.

" She will say "No.

" She will refuse.

The fact that a womans refusal actually indicates her approval is a different matter.

A womans denial, in this case, contains acceptance.

The womans "No" will of course reflect the "Yes" as well as her pleasure; but shell be unable to say "Yes.

"

Man has to initiate the woman in sexuality, he has to lead her in the world of sex.

However, if a man seeing a nude woman becomes one with his inner energy instead of becoming sexually aroused, the phenomenon proves to be of immense value for the woman.

The inward-going energy of a man helps the womans energy to go within -- it becomes an initiation for her.

Just as man succeeds in leading a woman into sex, if he could also transcend sex in her presence he can initiate her into transcending sex as well.

Thats why a separate system for woman was not discovered -- there was no need for it.

Question 3

WHAT HAPPENS TO WOMEN WHO ARE OF MASCULINE NATURE?

This is possible, and there are reasons for it.

It will be useful to talk about it a little.

Actually, it is not quite correct to say that someone is a man and someone is a woman.

In fact, no one is only a man or a woman.

Being a man or a woman is a matter of degrees.

For a certain period, a child in the mothers womb contains both sexes -- it is neither clearly male nor female.

The fetus gradually develops into either a male or a female.

This progression is also just a matter of degree.

When we identify someone as a man, it means he is sixty percent male and forty percent female, or seventy percent male and thirty percent female, or ninety percent male and ten percent female.

When we say woman, it means the female element in her is proportionately greater than the male element.

Occasionally it happens that a man is fifty-one percent male and forty-nine percent female -- a very minor difference.

Such a man will appear to be feminine.

Similarly, if a woman is fifty-one percent female and forty-nine percent male, she will look very masculine.

If such a woman were to find a feminine husband, she will immediately take a dominant role.

In a case like this we commit a linguistic error.

In a situation like this, if we were to use language correctly, the man should be called the wife, and the woman the husband, because the one who is dominant is the master.

In that case we must drop husband and wife as synonyms for man and woman.

Truly speaking, husband stands for a particular function.

To be a husband is a position in itself -- either a man or a woman can be in that position.

To be a wife is also functional -- either a man or a woman can fulfill that function.

Many men live and function as wives.

Many women live and function as husbands.

So the high or low male/female ratio in their personalities causes men and women to live such lives.

And once in a while it happens that either a man accidentally, in some illness, becomes a woman, or a woman changes into a man.

Some time ago there was a case in London in which a woman turned into a man soon after her marriage.

A suit was filed accusing her of cheating the man she was married to.

The suit contended that she was already a man at the time of their marriage and the man had been deceived.

It became very difficult for the poor woman to prove that she was indeed a woman at the time of marriage, that she turned into a man afterwards.

But medical science came to her rescue and it was proved that she was a woman at the time of marriage, but on the verge of becoming a man.

She was a marginal case -- one more step and she could have turned into a man.

And she moved that one step.

In the future it will not be too difficult for science to make it possible for men and women to change their sexes if they wish.

And it is good, because people after all do get bored playing the same role -- a change is needed.

Women who have the male element more in them will become domineering.

And such women will always remain unhappy.

The reason is, such domineering element is contrary to their feminine nature; hence their misery will be endless.

Actually, a woman likes a man who can dominate her.

No woman likes a man who becomes dominated by her.

A woman with a high degree of male element will dominate and suffer unhappiness too, because she didnt find a man who would dominate her.

Her misery will have no end.

The situation with the man however is that his happiness lies in the woman surrendering to him.

But if he surrenders to her on his own, the woman will always remain uneasy -- she will never be satisfied.

So being a man or a woman should not be a marginal thing.

But the kind of system we have developed is by and by causing men and women to live marginally.

We have only our civilization to blame for this.

In fact the way our culture has evolved, it has made the roles of men and women almost identical.

This has proved harmful.

Because of it the womans femininity has declined, and so has mans masculinity -- although ideally, both need to be on the extreme poles.

A man should be ninety-nine percent male and one percent female -- one percent effeminacy is bound to remain, that he cannot avoid.

A woman should be ninety-nine percent female and one percent male.

For this to be possible, it is necessary that there should be different exercises for both, different diets, different kinds of education.

It is essential that their entire discipline of life be different; only then will we be able to place them as two polarities.

The day man will grow in his understanding, we wont want women to become like men and men like women.

That day we will want a woman to be like a woman and a man like a man.

And we will want a big gap between the two, because the greater the distance the more attraction be tween the two, the more juice flows between the two.

The greater the distance, the more joy of union between the two.

The lesser the distance the less juice flows between the two, the less joy in their meeting.

But this is what has happened.

In the process of becoming civilized, man has become more and more soft and tender.

Since he neither goes to fight battles, nor does he go to work in fields, fight animals, or break stones, his feminine personality has begun to grow.

He has become soft, he has lost his muscles.

A very basic part of his manhood has disappeared.

The woman is coming closer to being a man.

She is receiving the same education as men.

If she needs to be successful within the male-oriented structure of society she has to compete with men, she has to perform the same jobs as men do.

She has to be like man if she needs to work in the factory.

She has to behave like men if she chooses to work in an office environment.

In such situations she is just nominally a woman.

Biologically, her being a woman becomes meaningless, because in all other respects she remains a man.

She performs the same jobs that are performed by men.

She stays in competition with them.

On the one hand man is becoming more and more womanish, less virile.

On the other hand, the woman is moving closer to man, she is becoming mannish.

This has proved very harmful.

The greatest harm it has caused is that no woman is able to feel satisfied with any man.

The same is true with man.

Consequently, both suffer from discontentment twenty-four hours a day.

This is bound to happen.

Until we have enabled man and woman to be on the opposite polarities, distinct from each other, their suffering is inevitable.

This factor is responsible for their suffering -- which is sick.

Otherwise, there is no reason for it.

Question 4

CAN WE NOT CALL THIS PERVERSION? CAN WE NOT CALL THESE PEOPLE PERVERTS?

It is not a question of calling them perverts, it is an accident.

It has nothing to do with perversion.

It is basically an accident, and ways should be found to save oneself from such an accident.

The one who is a victim of such an accident deserves pity, he should not be called a pervert.

The person is not at fault.

Unless we care to bring about a qualitative change in people with respect to their effeminacy or masculinity, which is not too difficult, all our efforts to correct them are acts of foolishness.

By injecting hormones the person can be made feminine or masculine -- but we dont think along these lines.

If a woman nags her husband, harasses him, dominates him, the husband never thinks of consulting a doctor.

He prefers rather to bring her to a monk, a holy man, for him to counsel her.

The fact is, the holy man is the least responsible in this matter, he has nothing to do with it.

There is no question of anyone counseling the woman.

She needs hormones which can make her more feminine.

Such hormones can be given -- there is no problem in it.

If a man shows feminine tendencies and his wife no longer finds him interesting, there is no reason to be upset or miserable.

He needs the same kind of treatment as is required in any other situation.

Question 5

ONCE THE SUBTLE BODY IS OUT, IT CANT ENTER BACK INTO THE PHYSICAL BODY COMPLETELY.

THE ADJUSTMENT AND HARMONY BETWEEN THE TWO IS DISRUPTED FOREVER.

THIS IS THE REASON WHY THE YOGIS HAVE ALWAYS BEEN ILL AND HAVE BEEN DYING AT AN EARLY AGE.

HOW CAN WE PREPARE OURSELVES SO THAT THE DISHARMONY MAY BE AVOIDED? CAN THE POSSIBILITIES OF ILLNESS BE MINIMIZED? HOW IS THIS POSSIBLE?

In this respect too, the first thing is: the moment the subtle body goes out of the physical body, natures order is bound to be disrupted.

The phenomenon is not natural; one should say, it is beyond nature.

When a phenomenon occurs which is contrary to nature, or which is beyond nature, the entire harmony and adjustment of nature becomes disorderly.

A great deal of preparation is needed if one wants to save oneself from such a disorderly state.

Various yogasanas and mudras, yoga postures, are very helpful in this respect.

In fact all the techniques of Hatha Yoga are useful in this direction.

So you need an extraordinary body -- an ordinary body wont work.

You need your body to be made of steel so that it can withstand an unnatural phenomenon of such great magnitude.

For example, there was no fundamental difference between the body of Ramamurti and any other human body, but he had mastered a few tricks.

We see that trick working every day, but it never strikes us.

You see a tire; when inflated it carries the heavy weight of a car.

Take out some air and the car will not move.

The air has to be in a particular proportion for the tire to carry that much weight.

Through a special technique of pranayama one can fill the lungs with so much air that the body can hold the weight of an elephant.

The chest functions exactly like a tire, like a tube.

In order to withstand the weight of an elephant, if one knows the proportion, the volume of air required in the chest, then there is no problem.

Ramamurti had the same kind of lungs as we do.

The tube inside the tire is not made of any hard steel, it doesnt have any strength.

The tubes only use is that it takes in its volume a specific amount of air -- thats all.

If that much air is present, the thing works.

Recently, a new type of car has been conceived which can run four feet above the ground.

It will not require any tire tube.

In fact the same trick applies in this mechanism.

The car will move so fast that the air underneath will have volume enough to bear its weight.

The speed will cut through the air, separating its upper and lower parts, and due to the speed a layer of four feet will be created which will sustain the moving car.

This works on the same principle as a moving boat.

As the boat moves with speed, a void is created behind it.

It is this void that helps the boat to move ahead.

Water from all sides rushes to fill the void; this pushes the boat forward.

This is the trick that works all along.

Should the water behave differently, the boat will not move.

So if a car is made to run at a particular speed, a four-foot thick layer of air can be made underneath for it to function as a road.

In fact, there is no need to make it really -- it will be formed automatically as the car moves at high speed.

Then there wont be any need for wheels; the car will simply slide along.

Then nothing else will matter -- only air will be needed, thats all.

Hatha Yoga has discovered many techniques which give the body a special discipline.

Giving such a discipline makes the difference.

Thats why a hatha yogi never dies young.

A normal raja yogi dies at a young age like Vivekananda or Shankaracharya, but not a hatha yogi.

And the reason is that the hatha yogi gives a total discipline to his body before such a happening can take place.

In order to prepare his body to withstand any unnatural situation, he performs many unnatural practices.

For example, when it is hot outside he will cover himself with a blanket.

Sufi mystics wrap a blanket around themselves.

The word suf means wool.

One who always covers himself with a woolen wraparound is known as a Sufi.

There is no other meaning of the word sufi.

All Sufi fakirs in the Arab world, where the sun is burning hot, move around in blankets.

In that scorching heat they wrap themselves in a woolen blanket.

They create a very unnatural situation.

As it is, the sun is sizzling hot, there is no greenery anywhere around, and a man is sitting there wrapped up in a blanket.

He is making his body able to withstand unnatural conditions.

In Tibet a lama sits naked on the snow, and you will be shocked to see perspiration running down his body.

This lama is working on his body to perspire even under the falling snow.

His effort is very unnatural.

There are many such ways of preparing the body.

If the body has been made to pass through these preparations, it becomes fit to withstand any unnatural happening.

Then no harm is caused to the body.

But ordinarily these preparations take years.

Consequently, the discipline of Raja Yoga finds it useless to spend so many years in preparation just to live a little longer.

Hatha Yoga requires years of preparation.

Twenty or thirty years are minimum -- thirty years are needed at least.

If a man begins at the age of fifteen, he would be fifty by the time he is fully prepared.

Hence, the discipline of Raja Yoga decided not to be so much concerned about the body.

If such a state does occur and the body dies, then so be it.

What is the need for saving it? So these preparations were abandoned.

Thats why Shankaracharya died at the age of thirty-three; the reason is that his body was not prepared to handle an event of such magnitude.

But there was no need for such a preparation.

If it appears necessary then it is all right; otherwise, no need to bother.

If one has to work for years in order that the body may last for only thirty-three years, and if the body is saved to last for thirty-three years more, then the arrangement doesnt prove to be of much benefit.

If I have to work from the time I am fifteen until I am fifty, I will already have lost thirty-five years in preparation.

Should I remain alive for another thirty-five years -- till the age of eighty-five -- the sum total of years that I will have lived will still be thirty-five.

So it has no meaning.

If someone were to have said to Shankaracharya, "You could have lived for seventy years if you had practiced Hatha Yoga," Shankaracharya would have replied, "But I would have had to work forty years for it.

I find making such an effort unnecessary.

I like to die at the age of thirty-three.

There is nothing wrong in it.

"

Hence, gradually Hatha Yoga lagged behind.

The reason was that no one was ready to follow its long practices.

But my feeling is, Hatha Yoga can come back in the future if its practices are followed with the help of science.

As I see it, what took thirty-five years can now be completed in five years with the help of science.

Time can be saved with the maximum use of science.

However, it will be a while before the scientific Hatha Yoga can come into being.

I believe scientific Hatha Yoga will be born in the West, not in India, because India doesnt have any scientific environment at all.

So time can be saved, but it doesnt serve any particular purpose.

It might be useful to save time under very special circumstances, but that too will happen only on the gross level, the level of the physical body.

For Shankaracharya it may not be useful to continue living but for others it can be.

Thats why even if remotely, even if barely, Hatha Yoga is still meaningful.

One could have said to Shankaracharya, "Granted that extending life is of no use to you.

However, if you could live for thirty-five years more, it would benefit many people.

" This is the only excuse which can bring back Hatha Yoga.

When the subtle body separates from the gross body, the adjustment between the two is interrupted.

It is almost like once you take apart the engine of a car, you can reassemble it, but it does shorten the life of the engine.

Thats why the buyer first makes sure the engine of the car was not dismantled before.

Even if the engine has been put together exactly the way it should be, it does lose its longevity.

The reason is that it cannot be the same -- even a little change in its original adjustment affects the life of the engine.

Furthermore, in our body there are some elements that die very quickly; there are other elements that take a little longer to die.

And there are some elements that refuse to die even after the man is dead.

Even in the grave the dead mans nails and hair keep growing for some time.

They keep doing their job and take a longer time to die.

Death occurs on many levels.

In fact there are several arrangements in your body which are automatic -- even the presence of your soul is not needed for them to function.

For example, I am sitting here talking to you.

If I leave this room the talking would stop, but the fan will go on moving because the fan has its own arrangement -- it has nothing to do with my presence.

There are two kinds of systems in our body.

One system is such that it will come to an end as soon as the consciousness leaves the body.

Another system keeps working for a short while even after the consciousness has left the body.

It is automatic, it has a built-in arrangement to continue to function for an extended period of time.

The consciousness will move out and the hair wont know the man is dead.

The hair will take quite a while to know the man is gone, that it need not grow anymore.

So there are certain elements within us which die very soon; there are some which die in six seconds -- for example in case of a heart attack.

A man can survive a heart attack if aid reaches him in six seconds.

Basically, a heart attack is not a death; it is just a structural fault which can be set right.

In the first world war about fifty people were saved like this in Russia.

If the aid reached in six seconds to soldiers who died of a heart attack, they survived.

But after six seconds certain elements die, and then it becomes very difficult to revive them.

The delicate parts of our brain die very soon -- immediately.

So if the subtle body stays out for too long, then it becomes very necessary to protect the physical body; otherwise, some of its elements will begin to die.

However, you wont be able to gauge how long the subtle body remained outside, because the gross and the subtle body exist on a different time scale.

For instance, if my subtle body goes out, it may seem like I stayed for years in that state.

But after returning to the physical body I may find not even a second has elapsed.

The time scales for both are different.

It is as though a man dozes off and dreams he is being married, the marriage procession is moving on, then he had children, and they grow up and now they are being married.

He wakes up and narrates his long dream.

One may tell him, "But you dozed off for only a minute, how can such a long dream take place in such a short time?" It can; the time scale is different.

Such a long dream can take place in one minute, for the simple reason that its time measurement is very different from that of the waking state -- it is very fast, speedy.

If the subtle body stayed out even for a minute, it may seem to you as if you have been out for years.

It doesnt give you any idea how long you remained outside really.

In that condition it is absolutely necessary that the body is preserved -- which is very difficult.

However, if complete arrangements are made, ones subtle body can stay outside for a long time.

There is an incident in the life of Shankaracharya which is worth relating.

It is meaningless to talk of how long he stayed outside in terms of his subtle bodys time scale, but according to our time scale he remained outside his physical body for six months.

A woman got him into trouble.

He had a debate with Mandan Mishra which Mandan lost.

But Mandans wife made a very womanly argument, which only women can make.

She said, "Only one half of Mandan Mishra has lost.

I, the other half of him, am still alive.

Until you have defeated me, you cant claim to have defeated Mandan Mishra totally.

"

Shankara was put into difficulty.

Although what the woman said was right, it didnt really carry any weight.

Mandan Mishra was fully defeated.

One doesnt have to defeat Gama, the wrestler and his wife too in order to become the winner.

But the wife of Mandan Mishra, Bharati, was worth having a debate with.

The world has seen very few learned women of her caliber.

So the idea of debating with her appealed to Shankara.

He thought it would be fun.

He figured if Mandan couldnt win, how long would Bharati last before him? But he was mistaken.

It is very easy to defeat a man, but it is not so easy to defeat a woman, because the arguments of man and woman, winning or losing, are never the same.

They follow a different logic.

Thats why so often husbands and wives dont understand each other.

Their ways of reasoning are different, they are never harmonious.

They often go parallel, never meeting anywhere.

So Shankara thought Bharati would discuss matters like Brahman, etcetera.

But she didnt raise any issue regarding Brahman, because she had witnessed how Mandan Mishra had got himself in trouble on that ground.

She knew very well any discussion of Brahman and maya will be of no use.

So she said to Shankara, "Please say something about sex.

"

Shankara was at a loss.

He said, "I am an accomplished celibate.

Please dont ask me anything about sex.

"

Bharati said, "If you know nothing about sex, then what else do you know? When you dont know even this much, I wonder what you may be knowing about the Brahman, maya and so on.

You will have to say something about sex because, after all, it is the very source of this world you call maya.

I will debate only on that topic.

"

Shankara said, "Please allow me six months time to learn about this subject.

I have no knowledge of it, no one ever taught me.

I dont know the secret of sex.

"

In order to learn the secret of sex, Shankara had to leave his body and enter into another body.

Here one may ask, "Why could he not have learned through his own body?" He could have, but his entire life energy had become so introverted, the entire flow of energy had moved so deep inside, that it was difficult to draw it out.

He could have, of course, related with a woman using his own body.

If he had set out to know what sex was all about, he could have related with any woman by means of his own body, but the problem was that his whole bioenergy had turned inward.

Drawing it out would have required more than six months.

It was not a simple thing.

It is easy to draw the energy within from without, but to draw it out again is very difficult.

It is easy to drop pebbles and pick diamonds, but very difficult to give up diamonds for pebbles.

So Shankaracharya was in a predicament.

He knew his body was no good for the challenge at hand.

He asked his friends to go and find out if anyone has just died so that he may enter his body.

Then he told them to guard his own body zealously till he returned.

He entered into the dead body of a king, lived through it for six months, and then came back.

Shankaras body was maintained for six months.

This kind of guarding and maintenance of the body is an extremely difficult task.

Only individuals of incredible devotion must have been entrusted with this responsibility.

As I mentioned earlier, a Tibetan seeker sits out in the open in the biting cold and makes his body perspire.

This is all a matter of will.

Through his determination he denies the reality of the bitter cold and creates another reality that the sun is shining and it is hot.

Merely by his resolve, he subordinates his circumstances to his state of mind.

The actual situation around him is that of the falling snow, but closing his eyes he denies that situation.

He suggests to himself that it is not snowing, that the sun is burning hot.

He causes this suggestion to go so deep within that a moment comes when his every breath, every cell of his body, every part of his being begins to feel the heat.

Then how can he not perspire? His very perspiration shows that he made his state of mind prevail over the circumstances.

In a sense, all yoga is nothing but allowing the state of mind to overcome the circumstances.

And all worldliness in a sense is nothing but subjecting the state of mind to the circumstances.

It has not been recorded or even mentioned anywhere exactly what Shankaras friends did in order to preserve his physical body.

For six months, a group of his devotees sat around his body without breaking the circle.

The idea was to maintain a fixed number of people present all the time.

They would take turns with others, but basically everyone present was required to remain awake and alert all twenty-four hours.

A special environment had to be maintained in the cave where the body was being guarded.

It was necessary that certain thought waves prevail in that cave.

About seven individuals were needed to sit around the body feeling intensely that they are not breathing, Shankara is; they are not alive but Shankara is.

And their bioelectricity had to flow continuously into Shankaras body.

The hands of these seven people were to be placed upon Shankaras seven chakras.

It was essential that the bioelectricity of these seven people be poured uninterruptedly into the seven chakras of Shankara; only then was it possible to preserve Shankaras body for six months.

Even a moments lapse was enough to break the circuit, causing the body to lose its temperature.

It was imperative that the same degree of temperature which is present in the normal living human being should be maintained in Shankaras body.

Not even the slightest variation was allowed in his body temperature.

And this body heat could not be created by any other external means except that these seven individuals continue to pass their whole life energy, all their magnetic forces through the seven chakras of Shankaras body.

Throughout this experiment, the body never comes to know that the man is not present, because the seven individuals supply the same energy that the body received from the man under normal conditions.

Do you follow what I am saying? The body never comes to know its seven chakras are no longer receiving energy from the mans consciousness, precisely because the chakras go on receiving a non-stop flow of energy from the seven individuals sitting around.

These individuals function like transmission centers.

Consequently, the body remains alive.

But if any error occurs in the procedure, the body gets ready to die.

Until then it remains totally unaware.

So a body can be kept alive if other people supply energy to it.

This was the incredible technique used in order to keep Shankara alive for six months.

For six months a group of individuals was diligently engaged in it.

Taking turns, it was required that seven people always remain actively involved in the process.

Finally, Shankara returned after six months and answered Bharatis questions.

This is how he came to learn about something he had no knowledge of.

There was yet another way of learning about sex, but Shankara was not aware of it.

Had such an event occurred in Mahaviras life, he would not have entered into another body.

Instead, he would have entered into the memory of his past lives; that was yet another source available.

This technique of remembering past lives, however, remained limited only to the Jainas and the Buddhists -- it never reached the Hindus.

Had such a question been raised to Mahavira, he would not have bothered to enter another body -- there was no need.

Rather he would have revived the memories of his relations with women in his previous lives, and known through this method.

He would not have needed six months.

But Shankara didnt have the scientific knowledge of this technique.

He knew the science of entering into the other body, which was developed by a different group of seekers.

There are many spiritual sciences, and so far no religion possesses all the details of all these sciences.

A certain religion developed a particular technique and then remained satisfied with it.

But up to now, no single religion has been founded which contains the treasures of all the religions.

And this will not come about until we have stopped seeing other religions with enmity.

If these religions could come close to each other as friends and share each others treasures, become partners, a new science may evolve that makes use of an infinite number of sources.

What was developed in Egypt is unknown in India.

Those who built the pyramids knew something which no one in India knows.

Those who worked in the monasteries of Tibet possessed something which is not found in India.

What India has known is unknown in Tibet.

What is known by one is not known by the other, and the problem is that each looks upon its respective fragment as complete.

Now going back into past lives is a very simple experiment; entering another body is very difficult and very dangerous.

The experiment in regression is very easy and it involves no danger.

But Shankara had no knowledge of this technique.

Since he spent all his life challenging and debating the Jainas and the Buddhists, all the doors of Jainism and Buddhism were closed to him.

He could not gain anything from them because he could not establish any contact with them.

It was a process of continuous confrontation.

Naturally, some doors were closed to Shankara.

Shankara was not ready to receive sunrays coming from any other direction except through his own door.

Although we dont realize it, the fact is no matter through which door the rays may enter, they come from the same sun.

But here we are, sitting by our respective doors, putting our claim on it.

We fail to recognize that what an Arab does wrapped up in a woolen blanket under the sun is the same thing a Tibetan does naked in the falling snow.

Their work is identical -- there is no difference at all.

Although they are engaged in contrary experiments, essentially both are involved in the same kind of work: the principles are the same.

Question 6

WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN ENTERING ANOTHER BODY AND PSYCHIC MEDIUMSHIP? HOW DOES ONE ENTER INTO A MEDIUM?

Actually, the experiments are contrary to each other.

In the former case, a person enters into another persons body, while in the case of mediumship, the medium allows a person to enter his body.

These are two different things.

The technique of leaving ones body and entering into another can be called the male technique; one has to enter another body.

Mediumship is a female technique.

Here, the medium will simply remain receptive and invite someone to enter his body.

This is much simpler, and the souls invited by the medium will in most cases be bodiless.

Rarely will an embodied soul ever respond to a mediums invitation.

The disembodied souls which are moving around us

We are not the only ones sitting here; there are others present here as well.

Since they are bodiless, their presence makes little difference to us.

Their presence can be understood in terms of how the radio works.

If you turn on a radio you can catch the Delhi station, but when the radio was not turned on, do you think the Delhi station was not transmitting or that the sound waves were not passing through here? They were, but we were not aware of them.

There was no medium to connect us with the sound waves.

The radio functions as a medium.

It puts us in touch with the sound waves.

So the individuals who work as mediums function on the same principle as a radio does.

They perform the act of tuning.

Their presence makes It possible for any of the wandering souls to enter them.

But these are all bodiless souls, and these souls are always eager to enter a body.

There are reasons for it.

The biggest reason is that bodiless souls -- we can call them ghosts -- their desires, their passions are the same as those of any ordinary mortal, any embodied soul.

However without being in the body, without the help of the body, the desires of these bodiless souls are never satisfied -- they cant be.

For example, a ghost wants to make love to someone; for that it needs a body.

The ghost carries the desire but is helpless without the body.

When it comes closer to a human body, the ghost passes through it.

Our body offers no resistance to it.

The spirit wants to be in the body, it longs to enter a body.

The spirit succeeds in entering the body when out of fear a person contracts from within.

In a state of fear your consciousness does not cover as much space -- you shrink.

A vacuum is created in your body.

In that fearful state the spirit enters the vacuum.

Generally, people think ghosts are born out of fear, or that fear itself is the ghost.

None of these beliefs is true.

A ghost has its own existence.

A person in a state of fear makes it possible for the ghost to manifest -- he becomes the medium.

And since it is the ghost that enters into his body, problems are bound to arise.

The mediumship you are talking about is the consequence of a voluntary invitation given to a soul.

Someone on his own creates a space within and invites a spirit to enter.

The sole technique of mediumship is that you create a space within and invite a spirit present in the vicinity to enter your body.

Since this is done voluntarily, there is not much risk involved in it.

And since it is done purposely one knows the method of calling the spirit as well as the device for sending it back.

Nevertheless all of this is possible only if the medium is receptive, and it works only on the ordinary bodiless souls.

The risk increases if a soul that is already in the body is to be called, because if I were to call an embodied soul to enter a medium, the body of the man being called will fall unconscious.

Very often, when someone falls unconscious, it is taken as an ordinary state of unconsciousness.

But many times it is not the case -- it is a situation where the individuals soul has been called somewhere.

Hence it is highly risky to treat the individual at that time -- it is best to leave his body alone.

But we have no knowledge of all this.

Up to now, it has not become clear to science when a state of unconsciousness is of the normal kind, and when it is caused by the souls moving out of the body.

So the phenomenon is the same but of a different nature.

In the case of mediumship the soul is invited in the body; in another, the soul is moved out of the body.

Question 7

IN ORDER TO KEEP HIS BODY ALIVE, RAMAKRISHNA HAD TO RELY ON THE CRAVING FOR FOOD.

IS IT NOT POSSIBLE FOR A HIGH LEVEL BODY TO EXIST WITHOUT ANY SUCH CRAVING? IN WHICH BODY DOES SUCH ASSISTANCE BECOME NECESSARY? IF THE BODIES ARE OF THE HIGHER STATES -- SUCH AS THE FIFTH, SIXTH, OR THE SEVENTH BODY -- WOULD THEY BE REQUIRED TO BE MAINTAINED WITH THE AID OF ANY SUCH CRAVING AS WELL?

Ramakrishna was very fond of food -- excessively.

One might say he was crazy after food.

Even in the middle of a profound religious discussion he would walk to the kitchen and ask his wife Sharada what she was cooking for dinner.

Then he would come back and resume the discussion.

This caused aggravation not only to Sharada, but to his close devotees as well.

The devotees were concerned that if word got around of their masters weakness for food, it would create a scandal.

Actually, disciples are always greatly worried about their master! They are always very nervous lest their masters name be dragged into disgrace.

So finally they said to Ramakrishna, "Your all of a sudden dropping a serious discussion for the sake of food does not look good upon you.

And why should the food matter so much for a man of your stature?"

What Ramakrishna said in response was very remarkable.

He said, "Perhaps you dont know

.

how could you? All the anchors of my ship are lifted, all the pilings have been uprooted, the sails of my ship are filled with the wind and I am ready to depart.

One anchor I have carefully saved so that my ship does not leave the shore yet.

The day I stop taking interest in food, know that I shall die three days later.

I dont need to live for myself -- there is no reason for it.

But I have something to tell you, something to convey to you.

There is something I have which I am eager to give to you.

Hence it is necessary that I linger a little longer.

"My ship is ready to sail, but it contains a treasure which I would love to distribute to those who are on the shore.

But the people on the shore are all asleep.

I have to wake them up, I have to coax them to accept the treasure I possess.

They dont realize it is a treasure, they think it is trash.

They say, We dont know what you are talking about -- leave us alone.

We are happy sleeping in our cozy beds.

"Let me persuade the people on the shore to accept the treasure my ship is filled with.

Let me distribute to them everything I have got.

The time has come for me to say goodbye.

"So this is the reason why I have tied myself to one anchor; this is why I take so much interest in food.

Food is my anchor.

The day I turn my face away from food, know that I shall be dead three days thereafter.

"

No one took him seriously that day -- which is normally how things happen.

The world would have benefited greatly had certain things in the lives of Ramakrishna, Buddha, or Mahavira been taken seriously.

But that never happened.

So it was thought perhaps Ramakrishna was providing an explanation, that he was merely trying to make a point.

The devotees must have suspected also that maybe Ramakrishna was explaining away his weakness for food so that he doesnt have to be bothered.

But exactly what he had said happened.

One day, Sharada brought his meal as usual.

In his room Ramakrishna was lying down on his bed.

He looked at the plate and turned on his side.

Ordinarily, he would jump out of his bed to see what was in the plate.

The moment he turned on his side, Sharada recalled Ramakrishnas words: his turning away from food would mean he wont be alive three days after that.

The plate fell from her hands.

She broke down and wept.

Consoling Sharada, Ramakrishna said, "What will crying do? I have pulled up the anchor.

How long could I have remained tied to it?" Exactly three days later he died.

You ask me: "Can such a soul stay on this earth without the aid of any desire?" Up to the fifth body, some earthly desire, an anchor, is needed; otherwise the soul cant stay around.

One who has attained to the fifth body has to fasten himself around some craving related to one of the five senses.

But beyond the fifth body this is not necessary -- the soul can stay around without needing to do this.

However, in that case some other factors will contribute in extending the souls existence.

Then it wont be necessary to preserve any craving.

But this is altogether a different matter and requires a lengthy discussion.

Let me explain it to you briefly.

If one wants to continue to exist beyond the fifth body -- as Mahavira, Buddha, or Krishna have done -- then in that case a pressure from the liberated souls, from the free spirits works upon them.

The urge, the persuasion comes from above.

Theosophy did a very significant research in this area.

The theosophists discovered that many souls which are now liberated, which have become one with the universe, which have attained to the highest, their pressure works in keeping such individuals a little longer on the earth.

For example, a ship is about to leave.

It is not tied to any piling, but the people from the other shore call out loudly, "Please stay a little longer: please dont be in a hurry.

" These voices from the other shore can become instrumental in preventing the ship from leaving.

And these voices did prove effective in the time of Mahavira, Buddha and Krishna.

By Ramakrishnas time the conditions had changed considerably, and things became very difficult.

In fact such an enormous, unimaginable gap exists between the people who have reached the other shore and this century that it is almost impossible to hear their voices.

The distance has grown wider and wider -- there is no continuity, no link left anymore.

For example, Mahaviras life is part of a continuity.

Twenty-three tirthankaras preceded Mahavira, and he was the twenty-fourth of that tradition, that system.

There is a chain of twenty-three individuals before him, and the twenty-third person preceded Mahavira not long before he lived -- two hundred and fifty years before him.

Although the first man of the chain happened very long ago, all the twenty-three in between appeared very close to each other.

The man who reached the other shore before Mahavira

The meaning of the word tirthankara may surprise you.

Tirtha means a ghat, the quay, and tirthankara means one who has landed on that ghat before you, thats all.

So twenty-three tirthankaras have landed on the other shore, the ghat.

They constituted a systematic order.

The language, the signs and symbols, the information pertaining to that world were all well preserved.

The twenty-fourth man, standing on this shore, could easily hear, understand, pick up messages coming from these twenty-three beings.

There is not one person among the Jainas today who can follow a single word of this tradition.

Mahavira died two thousand five hundred years ago.

A huge gap exists between him and us.

Even if Mahavira were to shout from there, there is no one here who can understand his language.

In two thousand five hundred years, the entire system of language, the signs and codes pertaining to that world have changed -- they have lost the continuity.

Jaina monks simply wade through the scriptures -- they dont know what else they can do.

But they make a big thing about the 2500th birth anniversary of Mahavira -- they make a great deal of noise, display banners, raise flags, cry out loud slogans of "Hail Mahavira!" They no longer have any mechanism to receive Mahaviras communication -- there is not a single man who can receive it.

People other than Jainas may have such a system still, but the Jainas dont have it.

Hindus and Buddhists had a similar system too, but by Ramakrishnas time no such mechanism was available.

Ramakrishna did not have any link, any connection with the people of the other shore.

Hence there was no way he could be persuaded by them.

So the only course left for him was to drive a piling here on this shore and hold on to it.

There was no other way.

It was difficult to know of any pressure working from the other side.

Two kinds of people in this world have worked for spirituality.

There are some who have worked in a chain, and the chain remained active for thousands of years.

The twenty-fourth man in the Buddhist tradition is yet to be born.

One more incarnation of Buddha is yet to appear, and Buddhist monks all over the world are awaiting his appearance.

They are looking forward expectantly -- desiring him in infinite ways, hoping to find him once more.

The Jainas are awaiting no one.

Hindus are also expecting an incarnation -- Kalki.

He is yet to descend.

But they dont have a clear picture yet as to how he can be called, how he can be received and recognized.

They dont have any means to identify him.

You will be amazed to know that all the twenty-three Jaina tirthankaras had left clues to identify the twenty-fourth tirthankara.

All possible indications were made available.

They had defined all the characteristics: the lines on his palms, the signs on the soles of his feet, how his eyes would look, what sign he will have on the side of his heart, how tall he will be, how long he will live -- everything was determined.

There was no problem identifying such a man.

In Mahaviras time eight individuals, including Mahavira, claimed to be the twenty-fourth tirthankara.

The time was ripe for a tirthankara to appear, but there were eight claimants.

Finally, Mahavira was accepted and the other seven were discarded, because only Mahavira showed all the signs of being a tirthankara.

But no such system or means of identification was available by the time Ramakrishna appeared on the scene.

In a spiritual sense, the world today is in a very confused state.

And in this confusing situation now there is no alternative left except that one remains tethered to the earth by anchoring himself to some piling.

No messages are heard from the other shore; even if they are heard, no one follows them.

Even when one does follow their transmissions, it becomes difficult to decode their secret.

The basic difficulty is that now, only by way of signs and signals is communication possible between that world and this world.

You may not be aware, but within the last hundred years scientists have discovered that there must be at least fifty thousand planets in the universe on which there may be life.

And they suspect there may be beings on these planets with a consciousness developed as high as that of human beings -- or even higher.

But the most difficult thing is: how to establish a dialogue with them? How to send them signals? What sign or symbol will they understand? How will they follow them? Seeing the tricolor flag of India, an Indian knows it is his national flag.

But what significance will the flag have for people of other planets? And how can we make it fly so that it becomes visible to them? Many strange experiments have already been carried out in this respect.

One man created a gigantic triangle in Siberia.

He grew yellow flowers on that triangle which was miles long.

Then he illuminated the triangle with special light effects.

Now, no matter on which planet you may draw a triangle, it will still be a triangle.

No matter where you may draw, it will still have three angles.

Wherever there is a human being, or beings higher than man -- whatever -- the figures of geometry will remain the same.

So the idea was to establish a contact with other planetary beings by means of geometry.

It was hoped, firstly, that people looking at such a huge triangle from another planet may come to think that such a triangle could not have come into existence on its own.

And, secondly, seeing the triangle they might safely assume that geometry must be known to the people on earth.

For many days a great deal of work was done under this assumption, but there was no confirmation whether or not anyone on the other planets understood this attempt.

Now of course, radar has been set up to receive signals which perhaps the other planets may be sending us.

Occasionally some signals are caught, but their secret, their meaning remains obscure.

For example, you must have heard of the flying saucer.

Many people have seen a small luminous saucerlike object moving around and then disappearing in the sky.

It has been seen at many places, on many occasions, and sometimes at many locations around the world on the same night.

And yet, so far, it has remained a mystery.

No one knows what that object is.

Who sends it? Why does it appear and then disappear?

It is quite possible that beings of some planet are trying to establish contact with earth.

They may be sending us signals which we are unable to follow.

When we dont understand them, some of us say its all a fiction.

They think the talk of flying saucers, etcetera is nothing more than gossip.

Some believe it must be an optical illusion, while others think it could not be anything but some kind of natural phenomenon.

So it is not clear exactly what it is.

There are a few people in this world who at least believe that maybe through these objects people of another planet are sending an invitation to us, that they are trying to convey something to us.

But even this is not such a difficult situation, because the distance between life on this planet and life on another planet is not so great as it is between souls which have reached the other world and souls which still exist in this world.

This distance is much greater.

In the first place, the signals transmitted from that world are difficult to catch here.

Even if they are caught, they are not understood.

Their secrets remain undiscovered.

So people like Ramakrishna in this century, or say within the last two hundred years -- it is not right to say even two hundred years

Actually after Mohammed -- that is in the last fourteen hundred years -- things became difficult, very difficult indeed.

Realizing the situation, Nanak created a new set-up from the start.

He forgot about the past and started a new tradition of ten people.

But it too disappeared very soon -- didnt last long.

So now there are only individual seekers left -- those who are not part of any chain.

An individual seeker has to use an anchor as a means -- thats the only way at least up to the fifth body.

The external signals and pressures can work when one is beyond the fifth body.

But for now, if the messages from the other world are not coming in, even a man in the seventh body too will have to make use of the anchor established before the stage of the fifth body -- there is no other way.